Nolva vs. Clomid for PCT
It seems like everyday questions concerning PCT pop up, and weather one should use either Clomid or nolva or a combo of both. I hope that this article written by BigCat may help to clear up some misconceptions.
While practically similar compounds in structure, few people ever really consider Clomid and nolva to be similar. Its not just a common myth in steroid circles, but even in the medical community. This misconception originates from their completely different uses. Nolvadex is most commonly used for the treatment of breast cancer in women, while Clomid is generally considered a fertility aid. In bodybuilding circles, from day one, Clomid has generally been used as post-cycle therapy and Nolvadex as an anti-estrogen.
But as I intend to demonstrate this is in essence the same. I believe the myth to have originated because nolva is clearly a more powerful anti-estrogen, and the people selling Clomid needed another angle to sell the stuff, so it was mostly used as a post-cycle aid. But few users really understand how Clomid (and also Nolvadex, logically) works to bring back natural testosterone in the body after the conclusion of a cycle of androgenic anabolic steroids. After a cycle is over, the level of androgens in the body drop drastically. The body compensates with an overproduction of estrogen to keep steroid levels up. Estrogen as well inhibits the production of natural testosterone, and in the period between the return of natural testosterone and the end of a cycle, a lot of mass is lost. So its in everybody's best interest to bring back natural test as soon as humanly possible. Clomid and Nolvadex will reduce the post-cycle estrogen, so that a steroid deficiency is constated and the hypothalamus is stimulated to regenerate natural testosterone production in the body. That's basically how the mechanism works, nothing more, nothing less.
Both compounds are structurally alike, classified as triphenylethylenes. Nolvadex is clearly the stronger component of the two as it can achieve better results in decreasing overall estrogen with 20-40 mg a day, than Clomid can in doses of 100-150 mg a day. A noteworthy difference. Triphenylethylenes are very mild estrogens that do not exert a lot, if any activity at the estrogen receptor, but are still highly attracted to it. As such they will occupy the receptor and keep it from binding estrogens. This means they do not actively work to reduce estrogen in the body like Proviron, Viratase or arimidex would (by competing for the aromatase enzyme), but that it blocks the receptor so that any estrogen in the body is basically inert, because it has no receptor to bind
This has advantages and disadvantages. The disadvantage is that when use is discontinued, the estrogen level is still the same and new problems will develop much sooner. The advantage is that it works much faster and has results sooner than with an aromatase blocker like Proviron or arimidex. Therefor, when problems such as gynocomastia occur during a cycle of steroids one will usually start 20 mg/day of nolva or 100 mg/day of Clomid straight away, in conjunction with some Proviron or arimidex. The proviron or arimidex will actively reduce estrogen while the Clomid or Nolvadex will solve your ongoing problem straight away. This way, when use is discontinued there is no immediate rebound.
So which one should you use? Well personally, I'd have to say Nolvadex. Both as an on-cycle anti-estrogen and a post-cycle therapy. As an anti-estrogen its simply much stronger, demonstrated by the fact that better results are obtained with 20-40 mg than with 100-150 mg of Clomid. For post-cycle, this plays a key role as well. It deactivates rebound estrogen much faster and more effective. But most importantly, Nolvadex has a direct influence on bringing back natural testosterone, where as Clomid may actually have a slight negative influence. The reason being that tamoxifen (as in Nolvadex) seems to increase the responsiveness of LH (luteinizing hormone) to GnRH (gonadtropin releasing hormone), whereas Clomid seems to decrease the responsiveness a bit1.
Another noteworthy fact about Nolvadex is that it acts more potently as an estrogen in the liver. As you remember, I mentioned that clomiphene and tamoxifen are basically weak estrogens. Well, tamoxifen is apparently still quite potent in the liver. This offers us the positive benefits of this hormone in the liver, while avoiding its negative effects elsewhere in the body. As such Nolvadex can have a very positive impact on negative cholesterol levels2 in the body, and therefore too should be considered a better choice than Clomid. It will not solve the problem of bad cholesterol levels during Steroid use, but will help to contain the problem to a larger degree.
Another reason why I promote the use of Nolvadex over Clomid post-cycle (as if being 3-4 times stronger and having more of a direct effect on restoring natural test wasn't enough) is because it's a lot safer. Not just because it improves lipid profiles, but also because it simply doesn't have the intrinsic side-effects that Clomid has. Clomid causes more acne for sure, but that's mainly because you need to use a 3-4 times higher dose. But Clomid seems to also affect the eyesight. Long-term Clomid therapy causes irreversible changes in eyesight3 in users. Irreversible. For me that alone is reason enough to prefer Nolvadex.
Lastly, one should be aware that use of these compounds can reduce the gains made on steroids. Nolvadex more so than Clomid, simply because it is stronger. Estrogen is responsible for a number of anabolic factors such as increasing growth hormone output, upgrading the androgen receptor and improving glucose utilization. This is why aromatizing steroids like testosterone are still best suited for maximum muscle gain. When reducing the estrogen levels, we therefore reduce the potential gains being made. For this reason one may opt to try Clomid during a cycle instead of Nolvadex. Although I would imagine that the problem that needed solved would be of more concern, in which case nolva remains the weapon of choice. It's a plain fact that there is a high correlation between gains and side-effects. Either you go for maximum gains and tolerate the side-effects, or you reduce the side-effects, and with it the gains. That's life, nothing is free.
Stacking and Use:
If problems of Gynocomastia or other estrogen related symptoms tend to pop up during a cycle the use of 20-30 mg of Nolvadex or 100 mg of Clomid daily should easily contain the problem, and be used until a few days after the problem subsides. For best results and the least amount of problems upon cessation it is best stacked with proviron (50 mg) or arimidex (0.5 mg) for this duration as well. Its not advised that these products be ran concomitantly with the steroid for the entire duration of the stack, as this will reduce your gains. Instead cease the usage of anti-estrogens once the problem is contained, and should the problem resurface, simply recommence the use of the products in the same manner as described above.
Once a cycle of steroids is concluded one should always initiate a post-cycle therapy to help bring back natural testosterone as soon as possible. This will help you to retain the mass you gained. How this is done depends highly on the type of steroid used. If only orals were used, therapy should start immediately, even the last day of the stack. If short-acting esters or water-based injectables were used, therapy should commence within 4-7 days after last injection, and if long-acting esters were used then it should commence 1.5 to 2 weeks after the last injection was given. The length of the therapy will vary as well, from 3-5 weeks. The longer acting the product was, the longer therapy should be continued to make sure all suppressive factors are cleared before use of Clomid/Nolvadex is discontinued.
The questions you will hear from athletes over and over is if they can get legal steroids clomid and nolvadex, is it possible?well I say yes you just have to look.
For best results, it is best stacked with HCG (Human Chorionic gonadotrophin), which functions as an LH analog and can help bring testicle size back up. HCG use starts the last week of a cycle, and on from there every 5-6 days (usually 1500-3000 IU) and discontinued 1.5 to weeks prior to the cessation of Nolvadex/clomid. The reason being that HCG itself is also suppressive of natural testosterone and should be out of the body before therapy is over, or it will inhibit natural testicle function. But I can not stress enough that HCG possibly plays a more important role in post-cycle therapy than clomid/Nolvadex. For Clomid and Nolvadex, doses are usually tapered down. Its best to start with 40-50 mg of Nolvadex or 150 mg of Clomid for the first week or the first two weeks, and then finish the program with 20-25 mg of Nolvadex or 100 mg of Clomid for an additional two weeks.
Steroid Side Effects and How to Stop them - Part 1
This chapter, along with the chapter on the proper use of ancillary medications, are two of the most important chapters in this book. Why? Because AAS have side effects, and long-term use of AAS can have a profound effect on longevity and overall quality of life in later years if preventative measures are not taken. Having used steroids myself for over 10 years now, I have suffered through virtually ever side effect listed in this chapter, and have consequently educated myself on how to avoid them.
Regardless of your age, it’s important to always bear in mind that the use of AAS for the purposes of gaining an edge in sport can be an inherently unhealthy endeavor. There is a distinct difference between the doses of hormones or drugs that are used in slowing the aging process through hormone replacement therapy (hereafter referred to as HRT, please see the chapter on HRT by Dr. Ramon Scruggs for further clarification) and those that are used to enhance performance. If one is to properly use performance enhancing drugs, it is vital that they know the potential side effects of drugs they are using, know how to combat these side effects, and most importantly, actually implement the knowledge they have. Time and time again I’ve seen a bodybuilder develop gynecomastia (commonly referred to as “bitch tits” in the bodybuilding vernacular) despite the fact that the individual in question knew this was a possibility and also knew the preventative measures to take. One should not engage in the use of AAS or any other performance enhancing drug if the maintenance of proper health is not of primary concern.
Compounding the problem of treating the side effects of AAS is the hysteria surrounding their use in the first place. Many bodybuilders that use steroids find themselves to be social pariahs, muscular misfits if you will, and end up finding comfort in the company of others that engage in steroid use as well. Because a bodybuilder wears his sport, he’s branded a steroid user by many regardless of whether that’s the case or not. Often times, the shame one feels regarding their steroid use will cause them to suffer through the side effects associated with their use, rather than seeking competent medical help. Truth be told, it’s very difficult to find competent medical help to treat the side effects of steroids, as most doctors simply have no idea how to properly do so. More often than not, the physicians I worked with for most of my years on steroids were completely clueless as to how one might ameliorate the negative side effects of these drugs, and would simply tell me to “get off the steroids”. I say this not to dissuade those of you reading this from seeking out the advice of a doctor regarding the side effects of steroid use, just to prepare you for a probable response.
Most of the side effects related to steroids are cosmetic and will disappear when one discontinues their use. But those that aren’t are the most important to understand and treat as necessary. Most of these cannot be seen or felt, and all are related to issues of cardiovascular health. Steroids can adversely affect cholesterol levels, triglyceride levels, and hypertension, which over time can and will lead to an increase in heart disease. Always monitor your resting hear rate and blood pressure on a weekly basis when taking steroids and have your cholesterol and triglycerides checked every six months if you are using steroid consistently. These are not problems you can live with, ignore them and you may very well die much earlier than you would have otherwise. Ask yourself this question: “How much is every year of my life worth to me?” If you ignore the potential for an increased risk of heart disease when using anabolic steroids, you are essentially answering the question with, “Very little indeed.”
Before we begin a look at the actual side effects themselves and how to treat them, it’s important to note that not all AAS are created equal!! At times, for the sake of brevity, I will lump all AAS together, but the fact remains that some steroids will cause more negative side effects than others. One of the points of this book is to allow you to make that distinction, and walk away with the knowledge of how to use them as safely as possible. Below is a list of steroids most commonly associated with the side effects listed in this chapter:
Anadrol-50 (Oxymetholone)
Dianabol (Methandrostenolone)
Halotestin (Fluoxymesterone)
Testosterone and its various esters
Unfortunately for us, these also happen to be most of THE most effective AAS (with the exception of Halotestin) for building LBM. Generally, the maxim that the more effective a steroid is the more side effects it has holds true.
Finally, before we begin, readers will notice that I do not advocate the use of estrogen blockers such as Nolvadex, Clomid (I do post cycle, but not for the purposes of estrogen suppression), or Proviron. With anti-aromatases like arimidex (anastrazole), femara (letrozole), and to a lesser extent Cytadren (aminoglutethiamide) becoming cheaper and more readily available, use of estrogen blockers should be relegated to the bodybuilding archives. For a complete explanation as to why, read the chapter Proper Use of Ancillary Medications Both On and Off Cycle.
AAS Side Effects
Acne: One of the primary indicators of steroid use is acne, and I’m sure many of you reading this have either experienced acne caused by steroids or have seen someone who has. Like all steroid side effects, the degree to which someone will suffer from acne varies from individual to individual. The more androgenic a compound is, the more profound effect it will have on increasing oil production in the skin via stimulation of the sebaceous glands. Having said that, I’ve seen individuals use incredibly androgenic stacks and never have a hint or a pimple or blemish, and I’ve seen athletes (especially women) use very mild anabolics and suffer from horrible acne.
Treating acne is very important, both for physical and psychological reasons. Untreated acne can cause permanent scarring of the skin if it becomes severe enough, resulting in a pockmarked area that can only be smoothed through expensive plastic surgery. And acne can have a very powerful negative psychological effect on someone suffering from it, branding someone a steroid user and further isolating them from “normal” society. Severe acne can and will detract from the most aesthetic of physiques, and take away from ones overall presentation.
Depending on the severity, there are several options for the treatment of acne. Since acne is generally caused by the more androgenic steroids, there is always the option of switching to steroids that have few androgenic properties, such as nandrolone, oxandrolone, or primobolan. Light cases can commonly be controlled through frequent washings of the effected area (to remove excess dirt and oil before pores become clogged and infected) and the use of over the counter topical treatments. Moderate cases will generally respond to the use of Retin-A coupled with use of an antibiotic (such as tetracycline) which kills the bacteria which feeds off the oil created by the sebaceous gland. Severe cases of acne should be treated with Accutane, a prescription drug manufactured by Roche that is very effective at permanently eliminating acne. Accutane has a host of unpleasant side effects itself, and treatments are both lengthy and costly (health insurance is a must), but its use is much better than the possibility of permanent scarring from cystic acne. Fortunately, while acne is one of the most commonly seen side effects, it’s also the easiest to treat, as competent Dermatologists can easily be found.
It should also be noted that acne commonly become an issue for bodybuilders that do not cycle off steroids correctly, which will often cause a severe imbalance between levels of androgens and estrogens. Preparation for your off cycle period is equally important as the time spent on steroids, so use of an anti-aromatase both on and immediately following a cycle containing AAS that can convert to estrogen is a must.
Aggression: Men, due to their higher natural production of testosterone, are generally more aggressive than women. AAS, especially those that are extremely androgenic, will further increase aggression in both males and females. This can be beneficial as long as the individual in question can focus the aggression appropriately, such as the lifting of heavier weights during training. There often seems to be a direct correlation between ones ability to control aggression and ones intelligence.
There is nothing worse than an out of control steroid user who is unable or unwilling to control their aggression. Before beginning a cycle of AAS, especially one containing strong androgens, you must prepare yourself mentally for the fact that you are in all likelihood going to be more aggressive than normal, and consequently take the time to assess the nature of your reactions while using them.
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